Author Topic: PWS for a day  (Read 5145 times)

Offline tolman_paul

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PWS for a day
« on: July 07, 2008, 12:58:07 PM »
Not really an adventure (that’s a good thing in a sense) but we did get the boat out for the second time this summer.  I’d been planning a 4 day trip in PWS for the weekend, but my wife needed to study for a class she is taking, my daughter wasn’t feeling well, and the forecast was for rain all 4 days.  I just couldn’t see 4 days in a tent in the rain being much fun, so the trip was reduced to a day trip on Saturday.  I’d wanted to go to Deepwater Bay, but looking at the Islands in the sound I imagine there is still a lot of snow where I wanted to go.

Anyhow, I figured heading to the South end of Perry and Lone Island might offer some halibut habitat, a spot to drop the shrimp pots and not be too long of a run from Whittier.  The day started out overcast with rain and some mild fog on the water, pretty much the miserable grey look.  Even with the fan running inside the cabin, the windows were constantly fogging up.  I imagine the dog getting wet while we were waiting to launch and I parked the truck, as well as plenty of wet clothing didn’t help matters.

The water conditions were pretty mild, not glass, but other then wakes from passing boats I could run as fast as I wanted.  I guess with the 50# of ice in the cooler and 6 gal portable tank aft I had more weight aft than my previous trip.  WOT yielded only 5400 rpm 31 knots.  I tried to keep the throttle at 4100 rpm, which yields 6 gph @ 21 knots, occasionally I’d bring it up to 4400 rpm for 24 knots @ 7 gph.  WOT was a bit shy of 11 gph, I’ve seen 12 gph last year at WOT, maybe the throttle bodies aren’t opening up all the way.

After dropping the shrimp pots in a bit over 100 fathoms, I headed over to a hump that I hoped held halibut.  I hadn’t made the connection yet that small kids, heavy halibut gear and slow fishing means you won’t keep your bait down long enough to hook into fish.  That and the ripping tide had me using 3# sinkers, which is just too much for kids to attend to and make sure they aren’t on the bottom and possible snaggin.

So, we headed to shore in the bay on the south end of Perry.  There are some beaches with well rounded rocks, so with an incoming tide we just headed in and I drug my spare anchor up the shore and tied off.  It would have been a nice spot for a picnic, except for the bugs and the rain.  Se we headed back out for lunch.  I lifted the dog onto the anchor deck and while he was walked along the shelves into the back of the boat on previous trips, he was having none of that.  He got scared and climbed on top of the cuddy and laid down.  So I had to bring the boat sideways into the shore, got him to jump off, then back up the side of the boat.

The charts showed a rock pile nearby, so we cruised over to it and proceded to drift over it and jig.  We made 3 or 4 drifts and ended up with 1 greenling, 4 black bass and 5 quillback rock fish.  The kids were getting tired so we headed back to where I dropped the shrimp pots.  I only have two pots, but each has 4#’s of lead to sink them, and another 5# on the line to keep it from coiling up on the surface.  Hand pulling that string was a fair workout, not exactly worth the dozen shrimp, but at least I didn’t loose my pots.

The sun statrted to try and burn through the clouds as I pulled the pots, and overall it was a decent day.  The wind picked up a touch heading back between Perry and Culross Island, so I had to slow to 17 knots.  As we got into Wells passage the water calmed down and I was able to get back up to 21 knots.

I burned right at 20 gallons for the trip.  I figured out the reason I wasn’t getting fuel burn on the past trip is when I changed the LMF-400 tank size the configuration changed and it was looking to get fuel burned from a fuel meter, not from the engine.

I’m looking forward for some serious fishing trips soon, and a few over nighters.  It’s tough to drop $200 in operating costs for a day trip.  The rock fish are good eating, but I need some halibut, and full shrimp pots!

adam_kondrashoff

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 08:55:57 PM »
Sounds like a fun day,  at least you didn't ge sunburnt.  How many gallons does your belly tank hold?  And how did you fit it under the deck?  As soon as I am done with my weel house,  it will be time for me to install a belly tank and back decks,  I am wondering how it all goes together.

thanks

Adam

Offline tolman_paul

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2008, 11:21:44 AM »
Adam,

It's a 55 gallon tank.  Here are some pictures of the original instal, I subsequently moved it forward something like 27" to improve my balance.  I didn't take any pictures after I moved it.  With the deck raised 1 1/2" over the stringers I have just enough room to run the fuel fittings, but it's tight.  In hindsight I'd raise the deck 2", maybe even 3" as my scuppers are often below the water line.





Here's the rear plumbing cluster as it comes up in the splashwell.  I ran the fuel and vent lines through 2" pvc, and have an additional 2" pvc pipe to vent the fuel tank area.  You definately want a vent at the front of the fuel tank.  When I originally plummed the tank I just had the factory vent, and I'd have to trickle in the fuel to keep it from bubbling up the fill hose, takes a long time trickling in 55 gallons!



adam_kondrashoff

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2008, 04:58:17 PM »
Paul,

I admire your boat,  thanks for being active in the group and posting so much information.  I too am building a widebody skiff,  mine is stretched to 23',  it will have a 4' long wheel house with no cabin sole,  and a full self bailing deck.  As far as a fuel tank,  I am thinking of putting in an  18 gallon belly tank.  Most of the time I dont run more than 20 miles.  If I am burning lets say 3gpm,  then I should safely be able to travel my 20 mile round trip.  If I do plan on going further It would be easy to hook up a above deck gas tank for the extra fuel.  For an engine,  I am leaning toward an E-tech 90.  I hope to keep my skiff simple and as light as possible,  I hope that 90 horse is enough,  we will see.

Offline gmclain

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 06:12:50 AM »
Excellent story as always, enjoy reading about your usage of your completed boat, gives all of us who still have to launch inspiration to keep at it, thanks.

Offline tolman_paul

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2008, 01:31:29 PM »
Adam,

A 90 should be plenty in a light widebody.  I'm the opposite end of the spectrum, full pilothouse, family of 5 plus large dog, cold water survival suites for all, lots of fishing gear, and all the misc stuff people bring along, oh yeah 9 foot dinghy on top of the pilot house.  For my use, the 140 is a great engine and I wouldn't want less power, but burning 5-6gph at cruise.  Also I like to go out on longer trips, so at a minimum I'd want a 45 gallon tank assuming I'd burn 30 gallons on a trip.  On a few trips I have planned this summer I'm wondering if I should bring one or two 12 gallon portable tanks in addition to the 55 gal permanent.

It's a amazing how different everyones boat and uses are, and hence how we configure them.  Honestly a 24 foot jumbo would be much better suited to my uses, live and learn.  But, the widebody is probably Renns favorite design, and it does have it's light nimble handling which is great in calm waters to a 1' chop.  I love leaning it over in a full lock turn.


adam_kondrashoff

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2008, 05:55:07 PM »
Paul,

It's good to hear that your Widebody is performing well for you.  It is amazing how many different ways people use Renns' designs.  I am sure that Renn is quite pleased with the reception that he has gotten from the hobby boat builders of the world,  much of the credit is due to Steveoh for spreading the word.  When you are fully loaded for camping,  do you know how many miles per gallon you are burning "mpg"?  If the widebody gets less than 3 mpg,  then I will probably get a slightly larger tank.  I can't wait to  put my boat  into a full lock down turn,  I probably wont do it with my wife onboard though.

thanks

Adam

Davw Wright

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2008, 07:15:55 PM »
Paul,

 I am thinking of putting in an  18 gallon belly tank.  Most of the time I dont run more than 20 miles.  If I am burning lets say 3gpm,  then I should safely be able to travel my 20 mile round trip.  If I do plan on going further It would be easy to hook up a above deck gas tank for the extra fuel.  For an engine,  I am leaning toward an E-tech 90.  I hope to keep my skiff simple and as light as possible,  I hope that 90 horse is enough,  we will see.

Adam, by "3 gpm" you really mean to say 3 miles per qallon, right?  if you keep your boat light and keep your speed just a little above planing, I don't think you'll have trouble averaging 3 miles per gallon for those 20 mile trips.  Dave Nolan may have posted some fuel burn figures for his long offshore trips in his Widebody back on the Yahoo site, that's a lot of posts to wade through, but you might find something there. 

If you can do substantial parts of your 20 mile trip at trolling speeds you'll do even better.  Yesterday we did 22.4 miles in exactly 4 hours.  We used 3.5 gallons of gas.  Most of the time we poked along at 1500 - 2000 RPM (that's 4.5 to 7 MPH), with only 5 bursts of 5000 RPM: the longest burst was for 2.5 miles, the shortest was for 1 mile, no sudden punching the throttle either. 

For the 4 hours then, we averaged 6.4 mile per gallon which is very hard to consistently achieve (it was flat calm all day).  You'll buy a more efficient engine than my 40 horse old style two stroke, but you'll be moving more engine mass parts with the higher horse engine, but you'll still do well, just keep all of the heavy crap out of your boat.

Maybe Aaron can post some fuel consumption figures for his nice Jumbo, you'll probably get what he gets, maybe a little better.

Looking forward to seeing pix of your completed boat.

Dave Wright

Davw Wright

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2008, 08:30:42 PM »
Just for the hell of it I looked up some of Dave Nolan's old Yahoo posts (search for him under "widebody22" for author).  His posts make for great reading.  Check out his post number 2311 back in August of 2002.  He describes one offshore fishing trip in the widebody - "close to 60 miles on about 14 gallons."  that's  4.2 miles per gallon offshore. He also gives his thoughts on how far he can go in the widebody with various tank arrangements.

You might notice one of Bruce Armstrong's posts - number 2233 back in July 2002, in which he says he might be getting 7.5 miles gallon with his 100 horse standard.  I think maybe Bruce was mistaken there, maybe from using a flowmeter type gauge incorrectly set up.  High tech can't beat a measured amount of fuel in a tank and a notation of exact time fuel runs out over distance. 

Anyway, the whole point of all this Adam is to substantiate your 3 miles per gallon as being reasonable for your 20 mile range usage with an 18 gallon tank.  Go with the 18 gallon tank at most and keep the boat light.  You can buy Tempo 6 gallon outboard tanks or 5 gallon Blitz tanks at Walmart for a song if you ever need more range.

Dave Wright

Offline funhouse

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2008, 08:50:49 PM »
Paul/Dave:  Great report -- and it's as close as I'll get this year to PNW boating this year!  At $5.00/gallon for diesel, I figured the fuel to get to Port Hardy towing with the Dodge would be $2000.......Lake Powell will still be over $500!  Thx politico's for balancing the budget....in 1997....anyway, Dave's right...my Std never got 7.5........years of checking/filling/pencilling tell me that if I really watch the Floscan when operating on flat water, I can break 5mpg with regularity......and that's with full gear on a long trip.....the interesting question is this:  if you're a long way from home and have five gallons of fuel remaining, do you plane with the main, hull speed with the main or use your kicker?  Bruce

Offline JMB

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2008, 01:44:44 AM »
From newbie:
GPH sounds right most statistics are mentioning Gallons Per Hour.  My old 19.5 I/O Glastron, 130hp Volvo-Penta used 9 GPH at about 3800RPM which was about 42mph on the speedometer.  Used to take about 4 hours round trip to Boothbay Harbor, Maine from Gardiner, Maine.  But, this was at about 3200rpm.  I used to listen for that magical sound, at 3200 rpm, which told me that I was saving the engine and gasoline for the long trip home.  I refuse to pay the additional $1+ for marine gas.  After filling up I usually had about 6 gallons left in the tank.  Pretty close to the 10% rule.  Using a 36 gal tank.
Guesstamating from Gardiner..20 miles to Bath, don't have my ocean charts available, about another 8 miles to Boothbay then the return to Gardiner.  But, 3 wake zones made up about 6 miles of this figure.
GPH is a more realistic figure.  No miles per gallon unless you have a GPS.
Haven't decided on POB HP yet.  Got a long ways to go.
Sorry, got off the Tolman Forum.
But, that's why I'm going to have an OB affixed to my Tolman 20'
JMB




Offline tolman_paul

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2008, 09:41:20 AM »
I seem to get right at 4 mpg even loaded to the gills.  Thats based on 6 gph @ 21-22 knots 4100 rpm which is where I tend to run, not too bad for a gross weight of say 4000# and 140 hp.  If I throttle down for rougher water its 5gph, @ 17-28 knots 3700 rpm, and I'll hardly ever go slower then that.  If I get heavy on the throttle mileage drops, but even at 9 gph 26-27 knots it's not horrific.  wot is 30-33 knots @ 11-12 gph.  Honestly I've never been out lightly loaded so I don't know if there would be a noteable increase in mileage, I think I just pick up some speed at wot.

I'd think a lightly loaded widebody with a 90 should be able to get 5gph, and as I recall somebody has a tohatsu 90 and reports 6mpg

adam_kondrashoff

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Re: PWS for a day
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2008, 05:42:11 PM »
Dave,  Paul,

Thanks for the insights,   if the Widebody gets 4 or even 5 miles per gallon,  then the 18 gallon fuel tank will be big enough for 90 percent of the boating that I plan on doing.