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General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: 20’ Widebody Build
« Last post by barrelroll on November 05, 2021, 08:57:10 AM »
A little more progress. I spent some time with the 5" disc sander and got my anchor deck shelves trued up and free of epoxy boogers. I needed to use my flush trim bit to get them closer to the bottom shelves and needed to round the edges. I had retried my not so well liked metabo black Friday chinesum special router to a Ryobi router table. A router table isn't mandatory for the build though I feel like it's saved me a ton of time clamping parts to route. The Ryobi table isn't a tank though was easier than spending a couple days building one. It also makes for better quality parts for parts that  hard to balance a router on free hand like cabin trim. Needless to say I was shopping for a new router and have a bit of a Milwaukee tools addiction. I picked up a M18 router/ laminate trimmer and it's an awesome tool. The small base plate makes it easy to get up against tight spots and I'm only on my second battery. While cordless tools are a luxury item it's sure nice to not drag an extension cord into the boat for a quick trim or round over.

With the new toy er tool I got the fuel tank compartments rounded over as well.

When I was getting ready to build I had asked about shop air dust collection/ filtration. I ended up going with a 20" box fan and the cheapest 20"x20" furnace filters home depot has held on with some bailing wire. I get a couple days out of a filter and it really helps keep down the sawdust fog with some air moving around the shop.
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Random spray rail thought. Why couldn't you build primary spray rails like he recommends building secondary spray rails with a UHMW cap?

 Part of my reasoning for glassing rails is I got a little over zealous with the sander blending spray rails and went though my glass. 
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Thanks for the replies. Makes a lot of sense and will save me from glassing the bottom of my shelves besides the fish deck and anchor decks. I was planning on wrapping all edges and I think I have a plan to get all my trim covered without a bunch of work. 


What Renn said depends upon what era of him speaking that we're talking about.  He migrated towards more epoxy and glass as time went on.  In a nutshell, if it is exposed to sunlight and/or weather, then it needs to be glassed - even it is a non-structural component and just because you don't want to repair delaminations and checking (splits along the grain) later on - even 2-oz glass fills the bill here.  My own preference is to glass pilothouse cabinetry if using a softwood plywood, but if using a sliced-ply marine plywood (okoume, sapele, meranti etc) then you can get away with 3+ coats of epoxy alone.  Note that all epoxy companies that I spoke with recommend a minimum of 3 coats of epoxy to waterproof something, and 2+ coats on top of fiberglassing.

As for those spray rails, I'd say that they, like the boat bottom and skegs/strakes, are in the ongoing-repair category and expected to take abuse.  If not glassed ... just fix'm when they need it.

I was referring to the second book, I never got the chance to meet him. Some of his details are a little confusing though now that I'm this far in I've been able to make sense of a lot of it. Also a big reason why I sent you the mini Alaskan idea.

With the inside of my pilot house I'm planning on hull liner covering all non glassed surfaces, is that sufficient protection or should I go ahead and glass it?
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What Renn said depends upon what era of him speaking that we're talking about.  He migrated towards more epoxy and glass as time went on.  In a nutshell, if it is exposed to sunlight and/or weather, then it needs to be glassed - even it is a non-structural component and just because you don't want to repair delaminations and checking (splits along the grain) later on - even 2-oz glass fills the bill here.  My own preference is to glass pilothouse cabinetry if using a softwood plywood, but if using a sliced-ply marine plywood (okoume, sapele, meranti etc) then you can get away with 3+ coats of epoxy alone.  Note that all epoxy companies that I spoke with recommend a minimum of 3 coats of epoxy to waterproof something, and 2+ coats on top of fiberglassing.

As for those spray rails, I'd say that they, like the boat bottom and skegs/strakes, are in the ongoing-repair category and expected to take abuse.  If not glassed ... just fix'm when they need it.
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General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: Epoxy vs. Glass Cuddy, Spray Rails, Shelves, ect?
« Last post by Kobuk on November 04, 2021, 06:25:46 PM »
I'm no authority, having only built the one skiff...

Before I began my build I toured an older skiff by a respected builder. One thing I noticed was that after years of weather exposure it was showing the need for a little TLC in a few areas. Most notable was that some edges of plywood such as the roof etc. apparently had not been wrapped with glass. Those plywood edges were delaminating from water intrusion. This made an impression and even though it was a PITA I made sure to radius and wrap all my plywood edges (roof, window cut-out's, etc.). If I built another one I would definitely plan to put in the effort to wrap any/all edges exposed to weather/moisture.

I glassed 100% of all exterior surfaces (except spray rails), and all interior surfaces exposed to weather.

Protected compartments, interior bulkheads, etc.: I glassed all structurally important joints, but I didn't glass interior surfaces such as cabin ceilings, cuddy bunk tops, some minor bulkheads, interior surfaces, etc.

I didn't glass my spray rails. It would be a PITA to glass them given the sharp corner that can't be radiused. I also made them from SPF softwood scrap. They're a little less durable against bumps/bruises than I would prefer.  I might be inclined to put a little more effort into making them a little tougher, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort. They're easy enough to touch up as needed.

That's my .02, FWIW.
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General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Epoxy vs. Glass Cuddy, Spray Rails, Shelves, ect?
« Last post by barrelroll on November 04, 2021, 04:09:29 PM »
I'm a little unclear on what exactly needs to be glassed and what can just be covered in epoxy and called good. From my understand there's a lot of things Renn just covered in 2 layers of epoxy and called good with possibly some paint on top of the epoxy. What was your theory on what to glass and what not to?

Here's the areas in question

-Cuddy cabin sides, bulkheads, and roof. Do I need to glass the inside or is just the outside ok? I'm planning on hull liner from the top of the bunks up covering everything over epoxy. I was planning on glassing the bunk tops because they will be taking some abuse with gear being slid over them.

-Cuddy/ lower side panel trim piece. I've got a 5/8"x3/4" trim piece where the 2 panels come together. I was planning on glass it since it's cheap home depot 1x4

-Inside of the pilot house. I was planning on wrapping the window cutouts with 4oz cloth, do I need to glass everything inside? I was also going to glass my fuel tank boxes and inside of my seat boxes because they will see a bunch of gear dragged over them. I'm planning on hull liner over bare epoxy in most of the inside of the pilot house.

-Under side of shelves, I've got a 6" piece of 9oz tape connecting the bottom of the shelf to the hull and the rest covered in epoxy. Does it need to be glassed? My shelves are all marine plywood

-Spray rails. I was planning on a piece of 10oz cloth though I believe Renn didn't glass them.

Everything else I was planning on glassing if it hasn't all ready been glassed. 10oz for the top of the shelves to hull and 4oz on the exterior from the shelf up being sure to wrap all exposed edges. 
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General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: Filler combos, what are you go to?
« Last post by barrelroll on November 03, 2021, 09:18:27 PM »
One thing I fought with fairing compound doing large fills/ wide areas with multiple batches was dried chunks of fairing compound in the areas of the cup I couldn't get to with a putty knife. They would leave snail trails that were a pain in the butt to fix. I've started cleaning my cup in acetone every batch and it's really helped prevent it.

Fairing compound also likes to pick up junk as you are working it on and off. I used to fill all my holes and then do bigger areas like not so perfect joints. Now I just fill the required holes under the big areas, do the big areas, and then fill holes. Holes are a lot more tolerant of trash in your compound.
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General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: Filler combos, what are you go to?
« Last post by pfithian on November 03, 2021, 02:59:28 AM »
Wood flour for filling/adhesive mixes.  Microballoons for fairing.
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General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: 20’ Widebody Build
« Last post by barrelroll on November 01, 2021, 10:27:57 PM »
Looking skookum!

What model fuel tanks did you use? (You may have mentioned it previously, but I couldn't locate it).

Thanks.  Found it, part number was wrong in the original post, I'll update it.

Quote
Fuel tanks are here. I ordered 2 35 gallon Moeller 032535 tanks to use as saddle tanks. The tanks were $369.99 each with $19.95 shipping to Alaska bringing the grand total up to $759.93 for 2 tanks shipped. For once west marine was the cheapest option when you factored in shipping. They got here in a week. After watching these tanks go in and out of inventory west marine had 5 in stock and I decided to jump on them, knowing my luck if I waited they would have been out of stock and most places wanted $150 per tank to ship them. The vent fitting that comes with them is now a 90 degree instead of straight fitting shown in most pictures online. I believe you can move around the vent and pickup fittings depending on mounting orientation.
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General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: 20’ Widebody Build
« Last post by Kobuk on November 01, 2021, 08:18:22 PM »
Looking skookum!

What model fuel tanks did you use? (You may have mentioned it previously, but I couldn't locate it).
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