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General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: Bottom molds/saddle spacing on a 24’ jumbo
« Last post by TFreeburg on January 15, 2022, 08:30:38 AM »
I agree with WildScotishBlum
The additional length of the hull is all in the straight run aft. Use the spacing in figure 12-3 and then extend the rear spacing, can even add a cradle if you want.
I took a lot of pictures but my notes are limited so I don't have the spacing I used.
General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Bottom molds/saddle spacing on a 24’ jumbo
« Last post by MattRabasco on January 14, 2022, 06:41:37 PM »
Hey everyone, I’m about ready to stitch the bottom panels together on the 24’ Tolman build.  Does anyone know the right position for the 2 molds/saddles?  The book has measurements for the 20’ but not the 24’.  Thanks in advance!  - Matt
General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: Update
« Last post by friday on January 13, 2022, 04:44:19 PM »
Ok, you had me looking twice, very nice!
General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: Woodenboat magazine 'updating' the Tolman?
« Last post by Kobuk on January 12, 2022, 04:34:47 PM »
I guess everybody's entitled to their own interpretation of "practicality and simplicity", but it seems awfully heavy for a skiff with nowhere to sleep or cook, no storage, and precious little room for passengers, ice chests, fish, miscellaneous cargo, etc.  He omitted the center thwart, which Renn spec's as critical structure for the open skiff, whether decked or not, and I don't believe the couple silly framing sticks he added to the sides make up for it structurally. And I always have to shake my head at the frail little decorative cast pot metal cleats that seem so popular, but that's an aside.  "Practical", i guess, for a brief evening sightseeing cruise on the lake, but not much more.
General Discussion Tolman Skiffs / Re: Woodenboat magazine 'updating' the Tolman?
« Last post by jim shula on January 12, 2022, 11:30:29 AM »
I haven't read all four installments of the Woodenboat article, but in looking at the pictures of the last installment, I was amused by how much the needless additional below deck framing resembled the Widebody built on Cape Cod twenty years ago.  I talked with the builder of that boat, Suzanne Leahy of Marine Restoration and Salvage (Orleans, MA) - it then became Pleasant Bay Boat and Spar Co, extensively at the Maine Boatbuilders Show when she displayed the Tolman.  Since she was a Marine Architect, and knew everything about building wooden boats, she also added a keelson, extra framing under the deck, and extra side framing to modernize the design.  She showed me nicely drawn blueprints of  the boat that looked similar to the extra framing added by John Marples.  If Renn were alive, I think he would take issue with calling the Marples boat a Tolman Skiff, just like he did with Suzanne Leahy's iteration.  She changed the name of the boat to a "Thompson Skiff" the day after Renn called her.!prettyPhoto[thompson-skiff]/1/
Free Boat Building Plans / Re: Jon boat with a Tolman Transom: jallii skiff
« Last post by KenB on January 10, 2022, 08:29:16 AM »
Not beer... just (tongue-in-cheek) frustration over being lectured to by some clown who thinks Renn Tolman was Naval Architect who designed a 26' boat!

I do not believe Renn Tolman sat at a drafting table lofting up silly curves then penning essays on them (Bolger); I think Renn built a lot of boats and MOST IMPORTANTLY USED THEM (Payson).  You can throw away all the theory, academic degrees, maxims, algorithms, and general blowhard pontification by going outside and making some sawdust. How many times in all the threads on this website has someone 1) come up with a great idea that improves upon the book  2) tries to actually do it and 3) comes back with their tail between their legs after realizing that the book pretty much gets things right... it happens more times with Tolman Skiffs than any other design I have looked at. Just remember the last edition of the book was published before outboards had electronic fuel injection.

Jallii writes "Totally unhypothetical answer here..." THIS IS LIE! Jallii then gives a reply not based on his own experiences building boats, not based on boats that actually exist (go look at the picture of my 8 degree skiff... THAT exists), and certainly not based on anything except hypotheses. You can judge for yourself what his motives are.

Bolger and Payson needed each other, Payson probably needed Bolger more. All because of who they were selling boat plans too, nothing much else. I attached some excerpts from a Bolger book below, which I think get at it, especially the paragraph where Bolger admits to screwing up a design. The 2nd paragraph on seahawk nails the Tolman crowd. The Hunt boat he is referring to is predecessor to moppie, perhaps the single most important boat design in powerboating:

Anyway, what are peoples thoughts on my 3 big discoveries about the Tolman Skiff design?

The first two chapters of the book kind of allude to the deadrise, but I've never seen a discussion on rocker, or the lack of frames. Does anyone know if using shelves was a deliberate reason to not use frames? I stopped using frames on my gloucester gulls once I realized how stiff the gunnels make everything. I have used both 1x3 ipe decking ripped to 1 1/2" rounded over on 3 sides, and also laminated ply scraps. In both cases, the boat magically goes from a bit wobbly to as stiff as framed. I notice that the "long beach dinghy" also uses a shelf at the top of the sides to stiffen things, and lacks frames, while being built on a jig...  lots of rocker though, rocker is great for sailing and rowing. 

The one more thing I would add is that UMHW chine shelves are much more important than I first thought. Work skiffs often get the same effect by bolting three 2x6 runners to the bottom, to create some turbulence.
Free Boat Building Plans / Re: Long Beach Dinghy
« Last post by tananaBrian on January 10, 2022, 05:34:38 AM »

Can we get an update on how the dinghy and oars turned out on the water?  Pix?


Free Boat Building Plans / Re: Jon boat with a Tolman Transom: jallii skiff
« Last post by Kobuk on January 09, 2022, 09:39:34 PM »
So I do hear the beer ‘a talken here
I'm cracking one now...but i'm gonna keep my mouth shut.
Free Boat Building Plans / Re: Jon boat with a Tolman Transom: jallii skiff
« Last post by TFreeburg on January 09, 2022, 08:13:02 PM »
So I do hear the beer ‘a talken here
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