FishyFish Tolman Alaskan Skiff and Boat Building Forums

Greetings all-

What is the current thinking on Armstrong type outobard brackets? iirc, Dave Nolan (rip) had one on his big boat. Did B&B do one too, or was that Kevin? Anyone else? Not a jackplate, a full bracket.

Has anyone extended the stringers through the transome and used them as a basis for an extension? Will longer LVL stringers provide enough setback and height to be effective? I think you still need to undercut the bracket to interrupt the water flow under keel.

dennis   

I have a bit of experience with 'floatation brackets' as I made one for my seacraft. The two main benefits are that you can 1) close the transom, which gets you back the deck space from splashwell and it's safer for backing down on big fish, and 2) Supposedly there is fuel efficiency from having the outboard run further back in cleaner water. Downside is that it's supposedly harder to manouver around docks, etc but I have not experienced that. Or the MPG gains, either; I get about the same numbers as my buddy who has the same engine on the same hull with a transom mount. But I can confirm that the extra deck space is real. You can also climb back into the boat a little easier, after a swim (even though I skipped the the swim platform).

I am doing a widebody with a bracket. I have consulted a few seacraft guys, and used a lot of Nolan's ideas. My first version was to layup on in mold from poly/1708, then bolt the 'bracket1' to the transom (armstrong, etc) but then I decided that integrating a square 'bracket2' into the transom might be a better idea, the way Nolan did it.

The bracket on my seacraft23  is set back 30", and there was some discussion that seacraft20's did not run well with fullsized brackets. So for my tolman, I scaled it to 26" which leaves enough room for 60hp mercs to tilt up. The curved transom cap is a seacraft thing, but once you see it you can't not notice how funny flat transom-cap/brackets look. I may also extend the transom cap shelf, to fit two small livewells on the corners. Super handy for when you have live baits but want to move a bit.

With regard to your question about extending the stringers into the bracket, based on my diagrams, they don't overlap. Nolan had a technique of adding a 'nailer' to bulk up the inside filet, which should be more than enough.

I think we should call them "Nolan Brackets," if everyone agrees.

Wowsers- thank you B&B and KenB!

I am all for calling it a Nolan Bracket, no questions there. Do you recall if/where Dave documented what he built? I have not been able to find much, but admittedly I have not searched very hard. I will try harder.

It still blows my mind that its nothing more than a 'rigid body box' bolted through the transom. I have seen many as O/B conversions to I/O hulls, but few purposefully built as part of the beginning.

I know that Anthony does the sponson's on some of his builds,  but that is a different effect I think. I am interested in the solid transom and reclaiming the deck space.

I will study/recreat the sketches that KenB posted and see if I can make more sense of it on a study plan of the hull.

dennis

Here is the Nolan Bracket thread (you can see how he adds a strip of 3/4 ply to the fillet surfaces):
https://www.fishyfish.com/boards/general-discussion-tolman-skiffs/nolan-jumbo-bracket-build/msg60349/#msg60349

Brackets are good for anyone redoing an old hull, replacing decks, changing the layout of the cabin, replacing fuel tanks, etc. I have seen a Tolman 'eurotransom' which looks great, but I wonder about adding more wetted surface, and maybe needing more power. With the bracket, on plane the bracket shouldn't be in the water, so same wetter surface, same engine. I wonder what Renn would say about Nolan brackets.

One original reason for the seacraft floatation brackets was that the old hulls were designed for 400lb 2 stroke engines. Once the new 4s engines started weighing more than 750-800 lbs, people got wet decks. All the other benefits came later. Search 'hermco' if you get bored.

On strength, my seacraft bracket was 6 layers of 1708 (about 1/4 to 3/8" thick, especially at the corners where the layers over lap) with 3x 1.5" stringers. For connecting to the transom you use 8x 1/2" bolts and at least a tube or two of 5200.  One guy I know pulled his brackets off and with the bolts pulled, he still needed a bottle jack to get the 5200 to let go. A guy lost his trailer on the highway, boat came off the trailer, hull ended up perched on the bracket and road divider; about the only good news was that he was impressed by the strength of the transom/bracket bond.

One thing that was a little hard to find was a way to get my smaller sized hydraulic steering (e.g. baystar or uflex hytech) through the transom.  The big size hoses have a $200 part that plugs into on either side. I ended  up buying a 'Scanstrut Multi Deck Seal' and drilling it out to get my 'ducer plug through.

I can only see 2 benefits for the bracket.  One is to get the motors in cleaner water and the second is to have a closed transom with a platform.  I think you loose some of that clean water when you build the bracket level with the fairbody. 

I'm pretty sure Dave N bolted his bracket and did a filet the best he could.  The boat in the picture above not only has the stringers all the way through, but also LVL's scabbed onto them.  I didn't use any bolts. 

Kobuk brings up a good point about all that weight cantilivered so use huge filets and some wide tape.  I used 4" 10oz, 6" 17oz biax, and 8" 10oz plus the 10 ounce overall.  I also used fiberglass fibers in a 50/30/20 mix for filet (50% wood flour, 30 fiber, 20 cabosil)

--dave

cj8mule-

I am confused, the other boat above is yours?

Are there any more pics of the details?

dennis

The boat above is a Great Alaskan Kodiak I'm building for Jake G.  Here's the link:  https://www.glacierboats.net/forum/index.php?topic=926.0

Here's a couple of detail pictures of the motor pod





The grey boat above is Dave N's.  He painted it right after doing his motor pod...  I liked the red so much more because it was easier to find him out on the water.

--dave