Author Topic: 23-6 Wide Body Complete!  (Read 63840 times)

Offline Grady300

  • First Mate
  • *******
  • Posts: 1180
  • 31' Great Alaskan, Kodiak 9' 6" Beam
    • West Coast Boat Works
    • Email
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2013, 03:46:55 AM »
A quick suggestion.  It may be me but when I get tired I will have brain farts.  Along with H anf R and added 1 and 2 to remind me, or a helper, of the correct ratio.  Just a thought based on my own mistakes.  Ken

This is my high tech epoxy dispensing station.


Sooooooo true been there and done that a few times or the other one is " how many pumps was that" one of the reasons I got the Michales Pump for the next build. I know some of my ratios were off because I have 1 gallon of res. left and only 1/4 gallon of harder left 2:1 ratio
Chuck M.
Tolman Skiff  KITS &
Great Alaskan Kits Available
On the Western Half of USA
<a href="http://www.wcboatworks.com">West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits</a>
21' 4" Wide Body Launch Oct. 2012
31' GA Kodiak launch Sept 2021

Offline jim shula

  • Captain
  • *********
  • Posts: 1703
    • Salt Water Workshop
    • Email
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2013, 04:32:13 AM »
When I was at this point in my widebody build I detected a little sag in the shelves where they are cantilevered past the last shelf mold.  The weight of the transom caused them to sag downward beyond the last shelf mold, also causing the shelf section in front of the mold to lift upwards.  At that point I drove a support under the shelf right at the end to make a nicer sheer line.  I left the support in place until the sides were hung.

adam_kondrashoff

  • Guest
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2013, 06:16:30 AM »
When I was at this point in my widebody build I detected a little sag in the shelves where they are cantilevered past the last shelf mold.  The weight of the transom caused them to sag downward beyond the last shelf mold, also causing the shelf section in front of the mold to lift upwards.  At that point I drove a support under the shelf right at the end to make a nicer sheer line.  I left the support in place until the sides were hung.
Me too, I had to re check my shelves, and found an un fair bend, that I was able to adjust.  I also learnded that when hanging sided panels, don't over tighten the side panels to the the framing, the screw can suck the panel in too far and cause a slight warp (this happend aft of the front panel scarf).  I was able to fill the hollow with epoxy and fairing, but I will be more careful to let the panels bend more naturally next time.

Offline Arne K

  • Boson
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2013, 06:52:26 AM »
I did notice the shelves wanting to sag past the rear mold and braced them with a couple of 2X's. This got me thinking about the curvature of the sheer and I realized that since I stretched my Wide Body by 22", the shelves are hanging past the aft mold farther and are therefor closer to the floor at the aft tips than on one built to spec. The aft tips of the shelves are 1" lower than they are at the aft mold. This will lower the stringers in relation to everything from station 6 forward. One solution might be to move the aft mold 22" so that the transom is sitting at the intended height. This would also increase the distance between the aft mold and the station 6 mold, possibly creating a need for an additional mold in between the two with a different width and elevation. Any thoughts on this?
"K-Newt": 23'-6" Widebody Pilothouse powered by Yamaha 115hp. Launched Aug 2019.

Offline brook

  • Able Seaman
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
    • Email
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2013, 07:37:55 AM »
My widebody is 22' 6". I ended up bracing up the transom with a couple of small store bought saw horses that just happended to fit the need. You will need to do something, and with your a foot longer than what I have, I would put something on the end, like what I did or extend the jig and add a nother mold. This is also a good time to take a long lood at you shear line and figure out what you want it to look like.

Offline jim shula

  • Captain
  • *********
  • Posts: 1703
    • Salt Water Workshop
    • Email
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2013, 08:16:20 AM »
I think Renn says in the book to install the stringers level (assuming the jig is level).  To do that you'd just need to adjust the height of the fwd stringer temporary support.  In intentionally made mine a little short so I could adjust to level with shims.

Offline Arne K

  • Boson
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2013, 08:42:16 AM »
By adjusting the stringers down to match the transom, that will lower the bottom in relation to  the stem. Not a big deal?
"K-Newt": 23'-6" Widebody Pilothouse powered by Yamaha 115hp. Launched Aug 2019.

Offline jim shula

  • Captain
  • *********
  • Posts: 1703
    • Salt Water Workshop
    • Email
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2013, 10:05:18 AM »
I don't think so since you slide the bottom rearward and forward to get it to make contact with the bowstem.  Then you start hacking away on the bowstem (remember the hatchet) until you get a good fit.  On my widebody I let the bottom panels into the bowstem 1/4"-3/8" so they'd transition into the 3/8" sides better.  I think Jerry and other guys have done this as well, but it isn't as important on a widebody or jumbo considering the chine flats hide this transition pretty well.

Offline Grady300

  • First Mate
  • *******
  • Posts: 1180
  • 31' Great Alaskan, Kodiak 9' 6" Beam
    • West Coast Boat Works
    • Email
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2013, 06:53:48 PM »
I think Renn says in the book to install the stringers level (assuming the jig is level).  To do that you'd just need to adjust the height of the fwd stringer temporary support.  In intentionally made mine a little short so I could adjust to level with shims.
I'm may be wrong here or not understanding what your saying but seams backwards to me. If your building jig is level and you build the forward temp support to speck seams like you would dry fit the stringers to the transom then shim the transom up until the stringers are level.
Chuck M.
Tolman Skiff  KITS &
Great Alaskan Kits Available
On the Western Half of USA
<a href="http://www.wcboatworks.com">West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits</a>
21' 4" Wide Body Launch Oct. 2012
31' GA Kodiak launch Sept 2021

Offline Arne K

  • Boson
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2013, 08:02:11 PM »
I think Renn says in the book to install the stringers level (assuming the jig is level).  To do that you'd just need to adjust the height of the fwd stringer temporary support.  In intentionally made mine a little short so I could adjust to level with shims.
I'm may be wrong here or not understanding what your saying but seams backwards to me. If your building jig is level and you build the forward temp support to speck seams like you would dry fit the stringers to the transom then shim the transom up until the stringers are level.


That makes sense to me.
"K-Newt": 23'-6" Widebody Pilothouse powered by Yamaha 115hp. Launched Aug 2019.

Offline Arne K

  • Boson
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2013, 08:08:24 PM »
My widebody is 22' 6". I ended up bracing up the transom with a couple of small store bought saw horses that just happended to fit the need. You will need to do something, and with your a foot longer than what I have, I would put something on the end, like what I did or extend the jig and add a nother mold. This is also a good time to take a long lood at you shear line and figure out what you want it to look like.

I assumed that the Renn spaced the molds so as to create the proper sheer. Is this something that many builders modify to much extent?
"K-Newt": 23'-6" Widebody Pilothouse powered by Yamaha 115hp. Launched Aug 2019.

Offline brook

  • Able Seaman
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
    • Email
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2013, 08:48:51 PM »
I mainly am refering to the aft section, differences are subtle, but can be played with a bit. More aesthetic than functional.

Offline Grady300

  • First Mate
  • *******
  • Posts: 1180
  • 31' Great Alaskan, Kodiak 9' 6" Beam
    • West Coast Boat Works
    • Email
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2013, 10:14:17 PM »
My widebody is 22' 6". I ended up bracing up the transom with a couple of small store bought saw horses that just happended to fit the need. You will need to do something, and with your a foot longer than what I have, I would put something on the end, like what I did or extend the jig and add a nother mold. This is also a good time to take a long lood at you shear line and figure out what you want it to look like.

I assumed that the Renn spaced the molds so as to create the proper sheer. Is this something that many builders modify to much extent?
Since yours is 23 1/2' it makes sence the the aft mold holding the sheer should extend some distance aft. I'm not sure if it should be the full 26" that the boat was extended or something less?
I know the GA plans are for a 26' model in the manual it gives different spacing for the sheer molds for the 25' 27&28' version. Just saying :)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 10:17:44 PM by Grady300 »
Chuck M.
Tolman Skiff  KITS &
Great Alaskan Kits Available
On the Western Half of USA
<a href="http://www.wcboatworks.com">West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits</a>
21' 4" Wide Body Launch Oct. 2012
31' GA Kodiak launch Sept 2021

Offline kiwi les

  • Boson
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
    • Email
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2013, 05:55:13 AM »
I extended my wide body about 3ft or so - yet to measure properly yet, and made no changes to shelf heights etc as the measurements to be changed were so small. To set the sheer was not to easy for me because I did not have the room to stand back and visualize, but stayed within the confines of the plans, though I did add a little to the bow. I had also decided to add 3" to the whole of the deck height as well. This was done after having several boats that were, I felt a little low to be comfortable for me so I went off and measured a few commercially built boats, hence the 3". I played around with the deck sheer only a little, and was easy to do.
I had all former's bolted to the floor, leveled and set as per the book. In hind site, another 6" higher would have been better for me as I did a huge amount of work under the hull, including putting on the deck. This enabled me to work out the deck width by measuring out from the sole height 3" and dropping a plumb bob. The 3" is the normal amount given for a comfortable toe step. From memory it worked out about 13". I was then able to glass the underside.
Else ware, a long time ago, I posted how I did the sides by myself, and will again try to remember.
At the bow, there is a point on the sides called I think the transition point, though not mentioned in the book, but is a natural phenomena where it is an unnatural bend. Renn fixes this with the axe on the stem. I fixed it like this
When laying on the front side panel ( scarf two sheets together only,(I also made a pattern), both ends are supported against the sheer siting on blocks, I scribed along the chine, and cut with plenty of spare.
This where it gets a little tricky. Measure back from the stem on both sides about 2ft. This will be your transition point. Measure in the thickness of the ply you are using for the sides, and  From that point measure back further, another 3 ft and mark. Take a flexible timber and mark from the inside point of the front mark in a gentle curve to the back mark so you have a curved wedge. cut this out. now lay your side panel in position, and mark the transition point on it. climb inside the boat and mark the side panel from the transition point forward on the underside of the chine flat. That forward section of the side panel is then cut out and fitted so it goes underneath the chine flat, aft of that point it lays against the side. be careful cutting that piece out, cutting well above the mark so you can trim it up for a good fit. A couple of blocks of wood with cellotape on them are screwed on the outside fitting against the chine flat, to hold the panel fair. screw also to the bow stem!  If there is a big gap don't worry thickened glue is a wonderful gap filler.
By doing it this way, the stem is whole, and with the side panels on, the stem has a naturally fared line, fitting in properly with the chine flats. It is also the proper way to do it. Indecently, I put on both sides of my boat, by myself in one day. I used blocks clamped to the underside with a spacer on the sheer, supported to the ground so the sheer didn't sag, and spaced where the ply sheets finished for them to sit on. the offset (gap) where two ply's came together was marked, trimmed and then scarfed at both ends but on opposite sides, laid in place and the next sheet done the same. Even in gluing up, the sheets rested on the blocks (which were supported to the ground) and pulled away a little. The scarf joint was supported by screwing through timber flats.  A screw was put in each of the top corners and pulled out one at a time to allow me to put glue in along the chine flat. I climbed inside the boat and popped the side out a little to put the glue along the sheer, and scarf. Of all the parts of the project, that was the most satisfying part. There was no heavy lifting, and did not need the services of any one to help. There was also no worries about trying to handle a large panel! Later on when cured, I glassed the inside join and panels. Its kinda nice under there, and I spent a bit of time pondering with the cat on my lap!
Its about 2.30am and I'm getting paid for this. Its also near the end of my shift and later today I have a yachting regatta to attend. Going straight there and sleeping in a tent till some bugger wakes me.
I hope the water wasn't to muddy in my explanation, but I am just a little tired (read shagged) I don't mind if anyone has any thoughts about this of coarse, that's what this forum is all about. Chin Chin

les

Offline Arne K

  • Boson
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: 23'-6" Wide Body Started
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2013, 06:50:16 AM »
Has anyone run their shelves/gunwales flat from a certain point back? I plan to build up the shelves a little differently than most by adding a 4" box section on top of the shelves at the sides of the cockpit around to the splash well. It would be easier to build on a flat sheer but I don't know Tolman would look with a flat sheer from the pilot house back.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 06:53:41 AM by Arne K »
"K-Newt": 23'-6" Widebody Pilothouse powered by Yamaha 115hp. Launched Aug 2019.