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Author Topic: Frustrated with the fit or lack there of....  (Read 3416 times)
chuck9982
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« on: May 05, 2008, 08:57:15 PM »

I have my bottom on top and am not too pleased with the fit.  I lost my 12 degrees at the transom some how when I taped the outside of the bottom.  Now it is at about 9 degrees. With enough weight on it I can get the wood to flex and fit close enough.

Then I crawled underneath to check the fit of the stringers. Big gaps  Sad

I scribed a line and reshaped the end now it is a litte better but I can still fit my carpenters pencil in the gap.

I did not have the relaxing night of building I was hoping for.
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Chuck
Graham, WA
Building J25.2
KenB
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2008, 09:28:38 PM »

No worries! I used those thule rack straps (used to hold windsurf boards and kayaks to roof racks) to bend things into place. For example, I used them plus clamps to bend the sides around the bow. I also used them to pull the stringers together enough to let the bottom drop down onto the stem. I started panicking a little, but then I posted on the yahoo mailing list, and everyone told me to keep plugging away. Obviously, everyone sorted out what I did wrong and then helped me come up with the best solution.

I am a little puzzled though. Did you clamp the sides to the jig?  The contours on the framing pieces should have given you close enough to 12 degrees. I needed to help my bottom meet up with the stringers, so that should not be problem. Worst case, when you flip the hull you can fill those gaps with fillet.

I would wrap those straps around the bottom and the jig and cinch away.  Could also do it with a spanish windlass, or a come-along.
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best,
KenB

"HOW CHEAPLY CAN A TOLMAN SKIFF BE BUILT AND JUST HOW  MUCH IS SACRIFICED IF COST IS THE PRIME MOVER?"
- Bruce Armstrong   

"I can tell you that either a nice BFT or a big YFT is an absolute riot on a Tolman. The boat is so light it's like the old man and the sea..."
- Dave Nolan
walknbob
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 12:01:32 AM »

Chuck

Don't fret. as mentioned you can cinch with straps and when you screw down along the stringers at epoxy time that will also suck things into place. I did not have the predicament that I can see you are faced with except at the forward end where the stringers begin to narrow to the bow. I shaved and measured and filed but still had a 1/4 to 1/2 inch gap. Other guys told me don't worry be happy the screws will suck everything into place. They were right. One thing I would recommend is that decide where your thickest batches of epoxy/filler are going to be (probably along the stem) and do them last. The thicker the epoxy the faster it will heat up and begin to set. so do the thinnner areas first and the thicker ares last.
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WalknBob aka Bob Southwick - Anchor Point Alaska
The risk of collision became an issue the day the second boat was built.
kiwi les
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 02:40:52 AM »

AS the other guys said, but I would do a screw down first just to do some premarking. For instance screw two blocks on the underneath at the transom on the outside overhang to align that bit, and a block each on the inside of the stringers at the bow end. screw some timbers to the station molds wide enough to support a car jack on each corner at the transom, and I got away with only 1 at station six bulkhead centred, with a block to take up the "v". Just jack up the hull, spread the goop, drop down again,strap down and the blocks will realign the bottom and then screw down starting at the transom.

les
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kchace
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Brookline NH


« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 06:37:58 AM »

  Yeah don't feel too bad, when you screw the bottom to the stringers it'll pull in. Believe me - I had gaps at the front between the bottom and the stringers that I could put my fingers in. The folks here who had done it before told me just what everybody is telling you now - it'll be ok.

  Ken

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Ken Chace
The Lucky C
25' Jumbo
adam_kondrashoff
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 07:07:06 AM »

When you climb on top of the hull bottom to screw it to the stringers,  your body weight in combination with the screws should get everything into place.  After everything is screwed and glued check the bottom with a straight edge to make sure that there is no hook or bow in the keel.
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chuck9982
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 08:30:27 AM »

Thanks for the support and ideas.  Rachet straps should pull the bottom to the transom nicely.

I am going to scribe and trim one more time in the light of day when I get home and mix up a lot of putty..... Looking at it and grumbling is not getting it any closer to the water....
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Chuck
Graham, WA
Building J25.2
kchace
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Brookline NH


« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 09:13:07 AM »

Thanks for the support and ideas.  Rachet straps should pull the bottom to the transom nicely.

I am going to scribe and trim one more time in the light of day when I get home and mix up a lot of putty..... Looking at it and grumbling is not getting it any closer to the water....

  Keep in mind that its the curve of the stringers that you want to match, you don't want to fill the spaces, you want to pull the bottom onto the stringers. The screws along with fender washers will do this. I had to pull mine in almost 1" along the front curve. I think I put the screws 3" apart in that area. Just glue as normal - prime with straight epoxy then a layer of thickened and screw it!

  Ken
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Ken Chace
The Lucky C
25' Jumbo
AlasKen
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Eagle River, AK


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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 06:36:34 PM »

Thanks for the support and ideas.  Rachet straps should pull the bottom to the transom nicely.

I am going to scribe and trim one more time in the light of day when I get home and mix up a lot of putty..... Looking at it and grumbling is not getting it any closer to the water....

I am going to agree with KenC again.  You want your stringers cut as specified and then pull the bottom to match.  Ensure your bottom is centered at the transom and bow.  I used some witness marks and wood blocks to ensure it went back in the same place after spreading glue.  If you look at before and after pictures of the bow of the boat the shape will change after screwing to the stringers.  It is hard to describe but it kind of flattens out slightly and is not as sharp.  It is more pleasing to the eye.  Your stringers should be defining the bottom, not your bottom panels.  When you get ready to add the chine shelves and sides make sure you use straight edges to keep a nice straight line at the chine, especially the aft most 10'.  I used 2x4 on edge.  This will make a nice fair bottom.  Trust in epoxy, screws and a straight matching stringer pair.  I would make sure that the stringers are still mirror images of each other.
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Kenneth Dodson
Crystal Dawn
24' Jumbo
walknbob
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2008, 07:07:24 PM »

I used some witness marks and wood blocks to ensure it went back in the same place after spreading glue.  If you look at before and after pictures of the bow of the boat the shape will change after screwing to the stringers.  It is hard to describe but it kind of flattens out slightly and is not as sharp.  It is more pleasing to the eye.  Your stringers should be defining the bottom, not your bottom panels.  When you get ready to add the chine shelves and sides make sure you use straight edges to keep a nice straight line at the chine, especially the aft most 10'.  I used 2x4 on edge.  This will make a nice fair bottom.  .

Chuck I agree with Ken.
Here is a link to one of my pages that addressed how I did it which is essentially what Ken is saying.
http://www.fishyfish.com/walknbob/ourboat/day_024.htm

The page before this one shows how I propped my hull bottom up for prepping.
If you browse through the next few pages after that you will get a feel for how that phase progresses.
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WalknBob aka Bob Southwick - Anchor Point Alaska
The risk of collision became an issue the day the second boat was built.
SmokinFletch
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2008, 09:43:40 PM »

 I used double headed nails called duplex nails #8. used a fender washer with each nail. screws with fender washers on the curved bow.and the stem. The nails didn't push all the glue out and they came out real easy and were fast to install. Very quick and easy. I drew a line for the screws on the bow, used a string for a guide on the flat part of the hull. make sure you tweak the hull to have an even distance from the shelves both port and starboard. I measured from the first scarf joint starting from the stem. YOU CAN DO IT! Grin
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chuck9982
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2008, 06:38:23 PM »

Stringers are attached, the bottom is on, and my transom is at close to 12 degrees again a rachet strap and lots of screws pulled it together.  I have a 6 inch crack in the bottom seam right at the peak of the transom.  I was further up on top of the hull and heard a nasty crunching breaking sound. The damage is not too bad.  a little time grinding and a foot long piece of 10 oz tape and it will be like it never happened.

The bottom sucked down onto the stringers fairly well. I trimmed them and ground a little bit more off the tips before spreading my putty and having at it. 

I have added some blood to the bottom.  I tried to drive my phillips 2 bit through my left index finger. I was holding a fender washer between my fingers and leaned into it too much before it was in the wood deep enough.  I have a new "x" marking the spot..... I also tried crushing my fingers with another washer when I pinned them to the bottom by not moving them out of the way after the screww was in position.  Holly thought it was funny watching me say colorful words as I tried to put the drill in reverse to free myself.

You guys weren't kidding about the hull shape changing when everything is screwed on. 

Rain and cool weather prevented me from getting the second layers of quarter inch on the bow today - having to cater to the wife's wishes for the day may have had a bit to do with the lack of progress as well.
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Chuck
Graham, WA
Building J25.2
funhouse
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2008, 07:55:39 PM »

Start glue'n and screw'n ... it'll fit ...... takes three people mixing, spreading, screwing, watching alignments, etc.....Bruce
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tananaBrian
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 09:00:29 PM »

<snip> I have a 6 inch crack in the bottom seam right at the peak of the transom.  I was further up on top of the hull and heard a nasty crunching breaking sound. The damage is not too bad.  a little time grinding and a foot long piece of 10 oz tape and it will be like it never happened. <snip>

If the glass layers cracked, then you need to re-tape them to Renn's minimum requirement ...something like 30 ounces total?  Can't remember.  In other words, cracked glass doesn't count and you need to rebuild the seam right over the old one.  No biggy.  You can include the sheathing in your sum.  Make sure you re-tape those seams to what's required, and if you can, run some liquid epoxy w/milled glass fibers into the crack as well.  Fairing in won't be hard.  Just use a broad drywaller's blade and fair it in before putting the exterior glass (sheathing) on the boat.  Now is when it's easy.  Otherwise, don't stress.  Epoxy cures all ills...

Brian

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kiwi les
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2008, 11:43:58 PM »

Don't be lazy Brian - you must grind away the broken seam and replace. With the gringing wheel on edge, grind into the join then reglue. You must also tape BOTH sides of the seam as well, not just one side!!!!!!!

DO IT ONCE DO IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry

LOLA!
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